Wednesday, August 23, 2006

To Lebanon With Love (More Time To Bomb)


Some Post Lebanon Cease-Fire Stats

Numbers of people killed (7/12-8/14):

[Lebanon]: nearly 1,300 civilians confirmed killed while bodies are still being dug
up from under the rubble, Estimates of Hizballah fighters killed range from 100 to 600.

[Israel]: 43 civilians, 114 soldiers killed

Destruction of infrastructure (7/12-8/14)

[Lebanon]: 15,000 homes, 29 ports, airports, water and sewage treatment plants, power plants 630 roads, 23 fuel stations, 73 bridges; 7,000 private homes; 900 businesses and farms.

[Israel]: Dozens of homes, public buildings, businesses, and forests

5 comments:

Jonathan M. said...

Max,
Im pretty amazed at your video. Its an interesting idea that one would try to explain the complexities of the middle east conflict with the help of an edited music video. Im obviously being cynical and think that this contributes nothing towards a meaningful debate.
The problem which never seems to be addressed in this blog is the reasons for this conflict, which is the legitimacy of Israel as a state. This seems trivial to you because I know that you support the existence of Israel. The problem is that the Arab-Islamic players in the region never have accepted Israel's existence. Some have accepted it as a fact but not as a right of jews to have a state. The middle east conflict has little to do with land disputes but whether the state of Israel has legitimacy.
This latest conflict is a classic example. Israel has no land or economic disputes with Lebanon. Yet the Hizballah feel completely legitimate to fire missiles(which they have been doing for years) and kidnap. Organizations such as Hammas and Hezballa will never cease their aggressions because they do not recognize Israel legitimacy only its existence.
This is not part of their hidden agenda but is their flag ship ideology which they are never embraced to scream in public. Their mission is to destroy Israel and the jews and do not have any problem saying so. Why do you not believe them? Do you think they don’t mean what they say? Do think that they are minor players in the region and do not represent the overall Arab public view?

kazembe said...

I am glad for jonathan's post, but I'll say the simply truth-

Israel has no right to exist.


Israel is a racist, settler state propped up by the huge military aid given to it by the US government. In everyway it seeks to undermine the right of existence of the Palestine people and has cause death and destruction to thousands of Arab people throughout the region. Israel as a state, is an enemy of progressive and forward thinking people throughout the world. It must be opposed on every level.

The Israeli state should be seperated from the Jewish people, the vast amount are progressive. Jewish people have suffered at the hands of anti-semintism for generations. However, the state of Israel, through it's actions of its ruling clique and role of enforcer for the United States, should not and does not speak for the needs and desires of Jews throughout the dispora.

Israel should not exist. In its stead should be a democratic secular Palestine, with the right to vote for all citizen, no matter race or belief.

max said...

Jonathan,

Hizbullah came to being as a response to Israeli aggression in the early 1980s when they occupied Labanon and slaughtered thousands of civilians, most notably in the Sabra & Shatila refugee camps. This is the context out of which Hizbullah came into being. If you are interested in knowing what "they are all about" instead of just believing the media and your friends in Israel you can check out: http://merip.org/mero/mero073106.html

In terms of your claims of Hizbullah's rocket attacks, I would like to quote from a long Q&A factsheet that can be found at:
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=107&ItemID=10721

"This table makes a number of points clear. First, Not a single Israeli civilian was killed by a rocket from Lebanon from May 2000 to July 12, 2006. And second, until May 28, 2006, there was not a single confirmed rocket fired at civilians by Hezbollah. (True, in some of the cases where the responsible party was unidentified, it might have been Hezbollah, but that's inconsistent with the group's usual policy of proudly taking responsibility for its attacks.) Often the perpetrators were Palestinians, responding to events in Palestine (for example, the bloody Israeli offensive on the West Bank in Spring 2002)."

Hamas is a different story but again you can read what they say they are about very clearly if your actually interested in that. This past Janunary they wrote an editorial that was published in the Washington Post called "What Hamas is seeking"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/30/AR2006013001209.html

They state among other things: "Alleviating the debilitative conditions of occupation, and not an Islamic state, is at the heart of our mandate (with reform and change as its lifeblood)."

The point though of course is that neither you or your friends are going to take the trouble to actually read these articles. You will continue to try and debate hollow "strawman" arguements that go over so well here in the US based on really no factual evidence at all. The fact of the matter is that pretty much every state in the region has accepted Israel's existence.

The only thing that will save people from more senseless death and destruction (in my opinion) is a binational state with Jews and Arabs and Muslims and Christians etc living side by side as they have done for centuries before the modern Zionist movement.

Mohammad said...

kazembe,
My name is Mohammad Aloka and I am a Palestinian Arab.
Im amazed at your ability to speak in the name of Jews in the Diaspora and you sound like such an amazing humanitarian. Such love and understanding towards both sides of the conflict in the Middle East. You've probably read a few books on the topic and maybe even studied up on the regions history but you are clearly and outsider.

The part that becomes the most obvious when reading your response is that your have no connection to practical nature of this conflict. You have no respect for either side in this problem. You don't respect the Jews and Israel because you do not at all understand their connection to Israel or their reasons for wanting a state.

But even worst is that you are trying to be Pro-Palestine while you don't respect the Palestinians or the Arab nations because you dont bother to understand their own history and cultural differences. You think we are all like you and that we all want your American dream of a multicultural, secular apple pie. How about trying to listen to those involved instead of throwing around dreams which sound good while your teaching a class.

Your views represent the worst parts of colonial. Your attitude erases our history and national identity. I guess that the best we can expect from a socialist living in New York. Ill try and make this as clear as possible. "WE ARE NOT YOU AND WE DON’T WANT YOU TO REPRESENT US"

Anonymous said...

"The Israeli state should be seperated from the Jewish people, the vast amount are progressive."

Actually, most Jews are Zionists who support Israel.